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romasha Oct 29, 2009 10:35 AM
What do you think of the new Cyn.in v3? Do share your likes, dislikes about the new version here, it helps us in building a better product.
Replies (16)
jkimble Nov 03, 2009 06:29 PM
Visually:
Overall I like it. The Dashboard and application views make for quick navigation to content. I'm not too sure about the modal nature of the side navigation menus, but I can see how they are necessary given large collections of spaces / collections and navigating among them.

::Adding Content
The +NEW button location has been a bit of an issue with non-technical people I've had log in and test the system. They seem to have problems finding it in context of the content that they want to add, particularly from the Dashboard. And once they have found it, they tend to just post things to the HOME space since the selector is out of the way / not as declarative as the asset-type graphics.

::Files of the same name
I had an odd thing happen when I user attempted to upload a file with the same name as an existing item. They were not allowed to upload the file - despite their being different content in each file These were text files, but the fact that the file names were the same prevented them from adding the content seems silly. Are the files just being copied into a folder on the server? I would have imagined that there would be some sort of UID attached to each asset and the information about what it used to be called would be stored as meta data.

::iCal / vCal Subscriptions
It would be nice to be able to Upload iCal / vCal content into the Event Calendar or set a calendar subscribe to the same (with pre-defined categories perhaps - since the system only supports one calendar?) as posted to external sites.

::YASN Content
It would be nice to be able to add RSS feeds from external sites (very useful for providing aggregate news) It may be there, but I don't see it. Similarly with regard to streaming video / audio content from social networking sites or internal streaming servers. Everything shouldn't need to be copied to the server to be considered an asset / resource.

::Login Screen
The initial login screen could use a "News" / "System Information" portlet. I don't see any easy way to edit this page via the UI.

Administration:
::User / Group Management
If I enable the "many users" / "many groups" options, the "show all" button disappears from the Users / Groups Tab in the User Management Panel. I get why this is happening - but it's not explicit in the text descriptions under the Settings Tab. (And considering it's the only thing on the Settings Tab, I'm wondering why it's not just an option under the respective User / Group panels)

::Sharing within Spaces
I would have expected that Sharing would allow a bit more granular control over user/group interaction on the content within spaces, but all I am seeing is "logged-in users" which is pretty much everyone with access to the content. So, aside from making global changes to ALL the content based on logged-in status, I'm not really sure what's supposed to be configurable in that panel.

::Backup / Snapshot
There appears to be no way to easily snapshot / backup the server via the UI. More than likely, if this were to ever make it into our production, this would be running on a virtualized machine with tape backups, making multiple or development instances of the server possible - but not everyone has that sort of luxury. A simple export / archive function seems to be in order.

:Recycle Bin
It appears that I've deleted the Recycle Bin.

::Errors
I've been getting an error on all of the Spaces when I attempt to modify them via the Manage Spaces / Contents menu item, it returns an error which (frankly) is beyond me. Something about a Key Error and the Description. I'm neither a Plone, Zope, or Python guru, so it's fairly useless to me and means that my only recourse in elminating the error appears to be to reinstall. Not optimal.

That's about all I have for now (only installed it yesterday) I'll pop back in later with more I'm sure.
apurva Nov 03, 2009 07:34 PM
Hey thats a great feedback, Thanks!

Adding content : One behavior we have found most common, is that users usually navigate to the space that they intend to add content to, and thenclick the add button. In such a case, the space is pre-selected as the current space in the add interface. But I agree users do tend to add content directly to the home space. It is actually designed for a scenario where the users need not worry about spaces and just post. However, if your use case requires your users to adhere to a space convention, i'd recommend turning off the adding permissions on the home space using the sharing tab (explained further down), just like we have done for this community

Files of the same name:
Cyn.in does not copy the files in a fodler, the files reside in the ZODB, however, the IDs are generated from the file names. These IDs are also apparent in the URL of the single content item. hence files with the same name are not allowed to be uploaded into a space. You could of course upload files of the same name into different spaces
 
iCal / vCal Subscriptions:
We have been working on iCal import / export / sync but have been facing a bit of trouble getting it to work correctly for outlook, which is the dominant calendaring client out there. You could expect it to happen soon in a forthcoming release.

Content from Social Networks:
Aggregation is quite strongly on the cards, (and the drawing boards) We are planning quite a few interesting features in this direction. Its a tricky feature as some businesses who use cyn.in, have a strong security focus, due to the nature of their use case, and content moving into the system is fine but facilitating pushing content out to these networks / sites might be objectionable to them. So we need to design these ideas keeping security and compliance in mind.

Login Screen Portlet:
Login screen is anonymously accessible, and again, the same above mentioned reasons sort of applies here. However, we are planning on a 'publish to public' workflow that will allow internal content to go public. Administrators could choose to disable this workflow in case they are security conscious, and apply the workflow only to select spaces. In such a case, we could have a public facing portlet aggregating internal content on the login screen.

Sharing tab:
You need to search for users or groups that you need to apply permissions for. When u hit search, the users or groups u searched for will be available to you in the list to modify permissions for.

Backup:
The Cyn.in appliance comes pre installed with webmin (available at https://hostname:10000 Webmin has comprehensive backup capabilities where you could schedule backups to a network share. Incase you would like to use your own backup solution, you could just backup the data.fs file to backup all your data.

Recycle Bin:
How did you delete the recycle bin? could you detail the exact steps you took?

Errors:
Could you paste your error into the forums here so that we could trouble shoot? Just hitting in the dark here, but it could be caused by the deletion of the recyclebin as well

Again, thanks for the detailed feedback, keep em coming, so that we can keep improving Cyn.in :)
jkimble Nov 03, 2009 08:22 PM
Re: Deleting the Recyle Bin. I Clicked on the navigation item and with the list of files present / clicked Manage (? / Top right menu) then Delete. I thought maybe it would empty the Recycle Bin and the text message just hadn't been modified from "are you sure you want to delete x" to "are you sure you want to empty x" Nope. Completely removed it from the left-hand Administration menu. So, I hoped that it might be contextual (based on items being available in the Recycle Bin) tested it - and that's not the case. So I successfully removed the primary admin tools - whoopsie.

As for the Error I encountered, it existed prior to the deletion of the Recycle Bin and was present across all created Spaces. I've since dusted the machine for reinstallation. I'll see if I can replicate it and post here.
dhiraj Nov 03, 2009 09:53 PM
Ah yes. Deleting the Recycle Bin, the classic mistake. Not easily reversible too! One has to do a set of things in the ZMI interface to get it back. The Recycle Bin is not really supposed to show the Delete link in the action menu, will look at fixing that soon. I've added a new issue for that: http://odn.cynapse.com/issues/1081
Other pending (and currently unscheduled) features for Recycle Bin:
http://odn.cynapse.com/issues/623
http://odn.cynapse.com/issues/622
http://odn.cynapse.com/issues/349
http://odn.cynapse.com/issues/341

Feature #341 is for the Empty Recycle Bin functionality you were looking for, this hasn't been done yet. The way to empty it is as follows:
1. Go to Recycle Bin
2. Hit the Contents tab, you'll land in bulk management view.
3. Scroll to the bottom, click the Select All link.
4. If you have more items than can fit in the page, a new link will appear for selecting all items in the folder, this will select all items across all pages.
5. Hit Delete, and poof, all items in the Recycle Bin are no longer in existence. Warning: There's no confirmation for delete on the bulk management screen.
vinnysibbs Feb 03, 2010 11:49 PM
Are there any instructions anywhere for how to re-instate the recycle bin after stupidly deleting it please?
vinnysibbs Feb 04, 2010 02:32 AM
Cancel the above, I got it back by the zope admin
pauls Sep 23, 2010 12:18 PM
Could you let me know how (if you remember)? I've done the same. I can get into Zope, but it looks Double Dutch to me.
dhiraj Nov 03, 2009 10:05 PM
Re: The error you were seeing, it's way more helpful if you can paste the error output, we can actually usually make some sense out of the error that's appearing. So, the next time you encounter an error message, if you paste the full output of the error into a new Discussion post, with what you did that caused it, we'll normally be able to help you out, here.

Re: Setting up of the permissions on the Home screen, and all users adding content to it by default:
Like Apurva was saying above, it's actually been *designed* to be that way. All content from Spaces below will any way aggregate upwards and be visible to users who can see it. The idea is that you can store content any where you want, and still have it immediately available directly from the Home screen. That said, you can easily turn it off, with the Sharing tab. You need to:
1. Turn off Inherit permissions from above checkbox
2. Add whatever groups (or users, but groups are recommended) with whatever permissions you want them to have:

Can Add means that they can add and edit new content in the area
Can Edit allows them to edit the Space itself and delegate permissions further
Can View means that users will only get to view content that's in the "Published to Readers" state, the default for content is the "Published to Contributors" state which only allows people with the Can Add permission to be able to view and edit it.
Can Review is for the Reviewed content workflow which requires content to go through an approver before it gets published.

For the Sharing tab, it appears deceptively over-simplified. Not so, in actuality. You can achieve most security concerns quite nicely with it. I just had a look at the page we have about this in the Administration guide, ( http://www.cynapse.com/[…]/manage-spaces ) and it definitely looks like we need to add more detail to it. I'll task someone to get this done.
dhiraj Nov 03, 2009 10:20 PM
Re: Backup. Need to again add more details on setting this up in the Admin guide. Expect this soon as well. Backup is actually built internally into Cyn.in now, and is available to all editions (unlike earlier in 2.x), you just have to set up a cron task to run daily in Webmin to do this. With the default setup, Cyn.in will auto-maintain (and rotate) the last 10 backups. You can even set it up to backup out to a mounted network shared folder, and get your backups directly on your central backup facility if you wish.

Webmin is available on Cyn.in CE at https://<cyn.in server IP address OR hostname>:10000
Confirm the exception to the self signed HTTPS certificate that your browser will show you and login with the root user you setup during install.
Go to .... System setup (I can't recall the screen name exactly, will look it up) and scheduled tasks.
In that set up a daily task to run at whatever time you wish and run this command in it:
/home/cynin/buildout/bin/snapshotbackup
to get a full snapshot backup in the /home/cynin/buildout/buildout/var/snapshotbackups folder. You can easily replace this folder with a mounted one, if you want to have off-server backup.
holey_foot Nov 09, 2009 03:04 AM
I to am receiving an error whenever I go to any folder_contents of any directory. Here's the error:

Traceback (innermost last):
  Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 119, in publish
  Module ZPublisher.mapply, line 88, in mapply
  Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 42, in call_object
  Module Products.Five.browser.metaconfigure, line 417, in __call__
  Module Shared.DC.Scripts.Bindings, line 313, in __call__
  Module Shared.DC.Scripts.Bindings, line 350, in _bindAndExec
  Module Products.PageTemplates.PageTemplateFile, line 129, in _exec
  Module Products.CacheSetup.patch_cmf, line 74, in PT_pt_render
  Module Products.CacheSetup.patch_utils, line 9, in call_pattern
  Module Products.PageTemplates.PageTemplate, line 98, in pt_render
  Module zope.pagetemplate.pagetemplate, line 117, in pt_render
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 271, in __call__
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 346, in interpret
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 891, in do_useMacro
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 346, in interpret
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 536, in do_optTag_tal
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 521, in do_optTag
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 516, in no_tag
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 346, in interpret
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 957, in do_defineSlot
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 346, in interpret
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 536, in do_optTag_tal
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 521, in do_optTag
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 516, in no_tag
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 346, in interpret
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 949, in do_defineSlot
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 346, in interpret
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 534, in do_optTag_tal
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 516, in no_tag
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 346, in interpret
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 745, in do_insertStructure_tal
  Module Products.PageTemplates.Expressions, line 223, in evaluateStructure
  Module zope.tales.tales, line 696, in evaluate
   - URL: index
   - Line 24, Column 8
   - Expression: <PathExpr standard:'view/contents_table'>
   - Names:
      {'container': <RecycleBin at /cynin/recyclebin>,
       'context': <RecycleBin at /cynin/recyclebin>,
       'default': <object object at 0xb7cfb528>,
       'here': <RecycleBin at /cynin/recyclebin>,
       'loop': {},
       'nothing': None,
       'options': {'args': (<Products.Five.metaclass.SimpleViewClass from /home/cynin/buildout/src/ubify.cyninv2theme/ubify/cyninv2theme/browser/foldercontents.pt object at 0x12226c0c>,)},
       'repeat': <Products.PageTemplates.Expressions.SafeMapping object at 0x1241a62c>,
       'request': <HTTPRequest, URL=http://10.255.140.17/recyclebin/folder_contents>,
       'root': <Application at >,
       'template': <ImplicitAcquirerWrapper object at 0x1266564c>,
       'traverse_subpath': [],
       'user': <PloneUser 'adp_doug'>,
       'view': <Products.Five.metaclass.SimpleViewClass from /home/cynin/buildout/src/ubify.cyninv2theme/ubify/cyninv2theme/browser/foldercontents.pt object at 0x12226c0c>,
       'views': <zope.app.pagetemplate.viewpagetemplatefile.ViewMapper object at 0x1266cc6c>}
  Module zope.tales.expressions, line 217, in __call__
  Module Products.PageTemplates.Expressions, line 163, in _eval
  Module Products.PageTemplates.Expressions, line 125, in render
  Module ubify.cyninv2theme.browser.foldercontents, line 14, in contents_table
  Module plone.app.content.browser.foldercontents, line 98, in render
  Module zope.app.pagetemplate.viewpagetemplatefile, line 83, in __call__
  Module zope.app.pagetemplate.viewpagetemplatefile, line 51, in __call__
  Module zope.pagetemplate.pagetemplate, line 117, in pt_render
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 271, in __call__
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 346, in interpret
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 861, in do_defineMacro
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 346, in interpret
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 536, in do_optTag_tal
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 521, in do_optTag
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 516, in no_tag
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 346, in interpret
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 855, in do_condition
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 346, in interpret
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 855, in do_condition
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 346, in interpret
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 536, in do_optTag_tal
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 521, in do_optTag
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 516, in no_tag
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 346, in interpret
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 824, in do_loop_tal
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 346, in interpret
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 536, in do_optTag_tal
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 521, in do_optTag
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 516, in no_tag
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 346, in interpret
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 408, in do_startTag
  Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 485, in attrAction_tal
  Module zope.tales.tales, line 704, in evaluateText
  Module zope.tales.tales, line 696, in evaluate
   - URL: /home/cynin/buildout/src/ubify.cyninv2theme/ubify/cyninv2theme/browser/cynintable.pt
   - Line 89, Column 18
   - Expression: <StringExpr u'${item/obj_type}: ${item/description}'>
   - Names:
      {'args': (),
       'context': None,
       'default': <object object at 0xb7cfb528>,
       'loop': {},
       'nothing': None,
       'options': {},
       'repeat': {},
       'request': <HTTPRequest, URL=http://10.255.140.17/recyclebin/folder_contents>,
       'template': <zope.app.pagetemplate.viewpagetemplatefile.ViewPageTemplateFile object at 0xcdb262c>,
       'usage': <zope.pagetemplate.pagetemplate.TemplateUsage object at 0x12481a8c>,
       'view': <ubify.cyninv2theme.browser.foldercontents.CyninTable object at 0x1267880c>,
       'views': <zope.app.pagetemplate.viewpagetemplatefile.ViewMapper object at 0x10a0770c>}
  Module Products.CMFPlone.patches.unicodehacks, line 36, in new__call__
  Module zope.tales.expressions, line 217, in __call__
  Module zope.tales.expressions, line 194, in _eval
  Module zope.tales.expressions, line 124, in _eval
  Module zope.app.pagetemplate.engine, line 65, in __call__
KeyError: 'description'
tamnhuthuy Nov 10, 2009 10:19 AM
I got the same problem. When I want to manage sub-space, I open Manage Space/Content and see that kind of error, all the time.
Can anyone tell me what it is and what to do?
Thank you.
rstewart Nov 10, 2009 03:24 PM
There is another thread about a Manage > Content error. The 3.0.4 ISO package has a mistake in it that causes this error. The original discussion was started by wnewland early last week. The upgrade to 3.0.5 is supposed to fix it. The upgrade is supposed to be out soon (today?).
vinnysibbs Feb 04, 2010 02:57 AM
Is it possible to have discussions displaying with the newest comments appearing at the top of the stream? both in the site and desktop client. If the discussion is quite long you find you need to keep scrolling down every time a new message arrives which can be a little irritating. A choice of newest first / oldest first set on a board basis would be the ideal IMHO.

And is there a way to look at all the tags so they can be edited or removed from the master list en mass? ...We have lots of different spellings from users for the same word tag ...as a for instance for why it'd be useful. A way to bulk change tags would be useful if it were added to the contents windows.
dhiraj Feb 04, 2010 11:35 PM
Not currently, no. We've actually considered this one quite a bit. Nesting of comments comes in the way of making this a feasible reality. I mean, yeah, we can easily lay out comments in descending date order. But for heavily nested comments, this would offer little to no context as to how the discussion is progressing.

A better idea would perhaps be to highlight newer comments in some way, like adjusting the background color, to achieve the same purpose, you'd get to come to know which comments were new, without disrupting the flow of the user who visited the discussion thread for the first time.

We already have "Nested" and "Flat" views though, and perhaps we could work on flipping the order of comments in the flat view, or maybe further offer a sub-row of buttons in that view to toggle between ascending and descending.

Thoughts?
vinnysibbs Feb 05, 2010 08:55 PM
Thanks so much for listening :) ... does wonders for our faith in your commitment as a tea, and our own confidence at switching to cynin as our preferred collaboration software.
I like each of your ideas a lot. Subtly highlighting newer comments is in nested view would be very good.
In flat view a single button to toggle between ascending / descending is perfect, especially if the option chosen could be remembered.
dhiraj Feb 06, 2010 01:24 AM
Hmm... perhaps we'll include these things the next time there's some work going into the Comments area. Thanks for the feedback, we're always listening, and yes, it *always* helps. :)
Another discussion about comments might potentially also be of interest to you, vinnysibbs: http://www.cynapse.com/comm[…]sily-editable-and-deletable
 
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