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chist_alex Feb 15, 2010 11:30 AM
I know that ie is the shittiest browser ever. Sadly but ~80% of all still use it.
Have you tried to optimize a code for ie? I don't mean ie fixes, I mean speed.

Thing is, in ie cynin works really slow. Maybe you know more, but seems like problems are in JS, because the whole page loads withing seconds (very fast), but then loading bar of ie shows that ~90% left. After that it loads these 90% for 10-30 seconds and then everything wakes up. During this long periond nothing is clickable.

Also usually left menu works sluggish. Sub-menus can't open sometimes. On mouse over the item - they blink like crazy. Sometimes you click on something and "browser" freezes and should be restarted.

Yes, I use ie8 in compatibility mode and ie7 separately. And server config is MORE than cynin minimal requerments.

I would just use FF (I love it). But those users who cannot install themselves a normal browser and a bit far from computers - can't. Sadly but this actually is the only one problem we have for using this system. (((
Replies (14)
chist_alex Feb 15, 2010 11:53 AM
good but not optimal for starter pc-users
chist_alex Feb 15, 2010 07:02 PM
do you know what exactly is the reason of such slowliness?
or at least guessing what can that be?

dhiraj Feb 16, 2010 10:28 AM
It's the javascript. IE is really, really, *really* slow with Javascript. We use a lot of jQuery for the AJAX UI of commenting, menus, and everything. IE can't keep up with this. And there's no fix for this unless Microsoft does something about it. Maybe when we build a mobile web UI the IE only users can use that! :P + :)

I'd personally rather not compromise the user experience of all the users who *can* use a browser other than IE, for all the people who can't! We're using the latest techniques in CSS, Javascipt and AJAX to give the users the maximum that is possible. Browsers that are rendering the best currently are Firefox 3.5+ and Google Chrome 4.0+

We're actively using Google Chrome Frame for all our Enterprise customers who have policies that prevent them from using other browsers and so far there's been no problems. It's a transparent switchover and it works great!

So if you can't even have that, then, well.... tough luck!?

Or would you rather have Cyn.in be dumbened down to the HCF of available functionality?
chist_alex Mar 02, 2010 09:04 PM
well. as a person who is too close to programming and dev, I can say that anything can be done in several different ways. That's why I asked. Maybe you know what you can change in next build not to load IE SO much.
Actually you will win from this much more than anybody else, because product will become much more popular - IE is still the most popular browser.
offray Mar 03, 2010 05:13 PM
Now with portable apps like Firefox, if someone is capable of saving a doc to the hard disk, is also capable of installing latest Firefox and have a nice browsing experience on a cyn.in powered site. If MS have this crap support for javascript is because of choise and users can make things about this just by using any other browser even in restricted installation environments. At this point there is no reason to not use a standards capable javascript browser. When we have a complain about Cynin with IE we just say the people to use Firefox and all our users have it installed also. Is just one click away.
varunvjoshi Mar 05, 2010 11:10 AM
I am not a technical guy, but would certainly say that installing FF is not the solution. In most of the organizations in India even today it is essential to keep track/see that employee do not end up playing farmville over facebook or simply browse through social networkings....Its possible to restrict certain browser features if its IE (no matter employee use proxy to visit sites still !!) it is preventive measure taken to curb the misuse of internet during office hours. How can one simply install other browser from point of view of Knowledge management development and end up loosing the value of time required even for general execution of the projects ?
apurva Mar 05, 2010 01:56 PM
Hi Varun,

Access control and restrictions to web content / sites in enterprises are usually done at the router / gateway / server side. Quite a few sophisticated (and even open source) solutions are available in the market to strictly regulate web content, instant messages etc flowing through your corporate network that will successfully block farmville and similar nuances :)

The browser is a tool which is supposed to render web pages and applications developed by a wide variety of developers in a wide variety of languages, platforms etc. It is the most essential requirement of a browser to adhere to standards so that all these web apps can be developed accordingly. The second most important requirement expected from a browser is speed, as applications are getting increasingly complex, webpages simply do a lot more things these days, and the browser needs to do them fast enough for the user to feel that the application is still as light as a web page. The third most important requirement in a browser is security, as users are exposed to tens or hundreds of web applications each day and none should be able to jeopardize the computers security.

Its most unfortunate that the most commonly used browser in the world, IE as of now, rates the lowest on all these three aspects. So if your knowledge workers use web based applications a lot your organization could potentially benefit with a productivity increase from a browser shift.

This is of course not to say that we will strive to improve the Cyn.in experience on IE and believe me, every release of Cyn.in ships with at least a few IE fixes! So rest assured that Cyn.in will get faster over time on IE, just remember that it will always be faster on Firefox or Google Chrome or Apple Safari until IE gets its act together.
chist_alex Mar 05, 2010 03:35 PM
Neither browser change nor installing chrome frame are not good solutions when you have to implement a system for hundrend(-s of) users. People are lazy. Always. They don't want to learn usually. They want everything ready and most of them don't want to change anything. And that's not because of exactly these people are bad, that's about most of users. Most of them stop when see something new. Enterprise solutions are painful to implement anyhow and everywhere in any possible case and circumstances. So much better when there are much less such STOP signs as this one. These are actually market needs nowadays.

We've built a lot of websites using different open-source Ajax and JS solutions. Some of them were slow. At the same time, their analogs which had the same functionality and even same design, were fast. In ANY browser. Including IE. I don't believe that here in cynin it's impossible tp make the same functionality without any slowliness. That's not about needed fixes. I understand that this is a lot of time and effort to change big parts pf code and much easier to wait until MS will introduce IE9, another shitty browser, but your system is the best from what I've seen. And I've seen a lot. This is the most big problem in it. IE.
offray Mar 05, 2010 05:22 PM
Fortunately in our case use Firefox is an easy option and we can concentrate efforts elsewhere instead of trying to fix the broken by desing stuff from Microsoft. Here we have both browsers across all the organization and the time to learn how to use browse from one to another is almost nothing.
chist_alex Mar 06, 2010 02:34 AM
You still don't listen to me.
For you and for me yes. Thats almost nothing. But that's not easy to do for common users. Especially when there are more than hundred of them. To push them using something new is a lot of work, if including browser change will be too much.
I understand that to write JS is not so easy sometimes, but if you do it, better to do it with high quality. Im sure that it was possible to write the same but with normal work in IE, which nowadays is a must for all websites and apps. IE is a standart. Devs who think that app doesn't have to work within standarts, loose a lot.
offray Mar 08, 2010 05:57 PM
No Christ, I'm listening. What I'm saying is that the dependancy on proper support for broken IE is not necessary on all contexts and is not the case where I live (not just me. Almost any person here have both and manage them easily) and can use Cynin powered sites easily. IE is not an standards compliant browers is just popular (a "defacto standard" but not a real one defined on a technical corpus). Put IE to make something with the HTML5 standard. You will not have any luck, because IE doesn't follow standards and so is just popular but not a standards compliant browser.
dhiraj Mar 12, 2010 04:06 PM
IE8 *is* the best IE there has been, yet. I'll give it that.

But it still has these... *exotic* problems!

Like consider this one: http://odn.cynapse.com/issues/1274 <-IE and only IE, fails on download of *only* Zip files. And this happens on vanilla Plone too!

Everyone proposing that we fix things for Cyn.in for IE, please consider helping us isolate which exact versions of IE, this is happening in.
And for anyone who figures why it doesn't happen when you remove the at_download/file part from the URL.... ? How about a bug fixed in Cyn.in? :)
chist_alex Mar 28, 2010 11:03 PM
> which exact versions of IE

mine is 8.0.7600.16385, but I also have full CS4 installed. Saw a discussion where you told that flash debugger can cause hangs.

> How about a bug fixed in Cyn.in? :)

if I were a programmer I would help. system is nice.
 
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